Behind Closed Doors with Napat Snidvongs
Napat Snidvongs—a.k.a. Plum—is a singer/songwriter living in Queens who grew up in Bangkok, Thailand. He is a 2023 Artist in Residence at Keepsake House and will be performing in our upcoming shows, Sounds of the Invisible (tickets are on sale now!) and Americana the Beautiful. In this interview, Plum chats with Hailey and Autumn about his childhood in Thailand, what it means to make music fun, and Ghost Radio.
In this blog series, we post in-depth interviews that take you behind closed doors (or #BCD) with independent artists, many of whom have performed or will perform in a Keepsake show.
Hailey:
We'll call you Plum a lot in this interview because that's how we know you. You've told me that nicknames are really common in Thailand. Do you know where the name Plum came from, and why you were given that nickname?
Plum:
I think it's just because my mom likes fruit. Her nickname is Tang, which means melon. And so she tries to use something like that. My brother's name is Pode, which means corn.
Autumn:
So I assume when you're talking to your family, they don't call you the English word plum, they call you the Thai word for plum?
Plum:
[There’s no word for plum in Thai because it’s a western fruit so they actually called me Plum too.] And everybody––even our friends, even your colleagues––they would use nicknames mostly.
Hailey:
Does everybody in your family have fruit and vegetable nicknames?
Plum:
No, it's only my mom's [family], because she's just cute.
Hailey:
She is. I've met Plum's mom, Kate. She is very cute and sweet and loves food.
Autumn:
Can you tell us a little bit more about what it was like growing up in Thailand?
Plum:
I grew up during the nineties, so it was pre-Internet and there wasn't much going on. We got to spend a lot of time just with our cousins and brothers in Bangkok city. Nobody cared as long as you came back by dinner time, you know? So we were just usually out everywhere. I don’t know what we did back then; you'd have to ask my brother. He led the pack of us.
Autumn:
How did you get started with music when you were a kid?
Plum:
I started music kind of late. When I grew up in Thailand, I didn't care about music; I wanted to be an artist. I was really good at drawing when I was a kid. I [was in Thailand] until I was 14, and that's when I went to military school in Pennsylvania, and then from there I went to boarding school in Massachusetts. And while in these settings I was always like, there's just nothing to do, you know? It's just comic books and records and radios and things like that.
Anyway, after I went to boarding school, there was an economic crash, so we had to come back to Thailand. I hadn't finished high school yet. It was 1998. And so during that time, before I had to do all these exams in order to prepare for my college years, I skipped two grades. My mom was going out with a man we call Uncle. And he said, “hey, you should pick up music,” I think because he didn't want me to be lost during those two years. And he used to be a musician, so he bought a guitar for me. That's how I started, just picking on guitars and figuring out chords and things.
Autumn:
Since you listened to a lot of music in boarding school, who were some artists that really inspired or influenced you in those days?
Plum:
Bob Marley [was one], and it was in New England, so there were a lot of these jam bands. [The feeling was] what vibe your friends are listening to. It's post-Nirvana, but there's still this grunge thing going on, so Weezer, Nirvana. Also, my brother, he's really hip, so he was always into the nineties hip hop that was [in its] golden age, like Nas. By the time we were about to come back [to America], my brother kind of switched into a rave thing. Have you guys heard of it? He just went out to party all the time. It's crazy. And they wear really big pants and stuff. So I was exposed to those types of music, which are not really my kind of music, but I was aware of the trends.
Autumn:
So what would you say is your anchor genre, like the home genre that you always come back to and that inspires you the most?
Plum:
I think folk music. Have you heard of Daniel Johnston? He's an Austin-based musician, and he makes music just by cassette and himself, and his guitar and everything is always out of tune. And I think he just does it innocently, you know, he's not aware of those things.
So when I started making music in the nineties, music was just so far away from you, right? People who put out records were people like Guns n’ Roses and people with such amazing talent. And when you hear something so homemade, it kind of gives you permission to say, oh, you can do this, and somebody is actually listening to it, you know?
Autumn:
I think there's a charm to really low production music. Most music that we listen to is very, very polished, very clean, you have sound engineers working on it all the time. But there's a special appeal, I think, to just one person on a guitar just playing for you and having a good time.
Plum:
Yeah, it was accessible, I guess, compared to me playing guitar in a bedroom. I also liked Peter, Paul and Mary, John Denver, stuff like that.
Autumn:
And somehow we get from Plum playing guitar in his room to a record deal in Bangkok. You’re a signed musician!
Plum:
Nah, I wouldn't put it that way. It's just friends, it's like a nineties attitude, right? So you have friends putting out CDs, it doesn't cost that much, you know, just to print 500 copies of a CD. And since there were not so many people doing things—I guess we came in at the right time—so that record label or whatever we made became something kind of viral, I guess.
Autumn:
That's really awesome. Can you walk us through what that journey was like? How did you go from just a guy in his bedroom playing the guitar to someone who's actually publishing and printing music?
Plum:
“Music is fun for me [...] there’s something not right about people being so stressed out when they [are making art], right? It should be the opposite. They’re just putting so much pressure, so much money into their craft, and it’s kind of stifling when you’re starting out. It should be fun first, right? That’s how you feel encouraged to keep going.”
Music's always something I do on the side, so I’ve always had a full-time job. I was working in advertising and doing events marketing, so you pretty much set up events for consumer brands. And [a musician I knew at the time] said there were a bunch of these guys who wanted to make a music festival, but it's more like experimental people just making crazy noise in a small venue. And so I helped them host those events. One of the guys who was doing this project, we just became friends, and he wanted to find a good Thai artist. So I started hooking him up with my friends who were starting bands and things. And one day I also had a cassette demo, like a four-track cassette. And I gave him that and he said, “Hey, you know, let's do a compilation with all these bands.” And we just did it.
Autumn:
And do you still write and produce music you publish regularly?
Plum:
Yeah, pretty much. I take a long time since it's my hobby, so maybe I put out one [record] every four years.
Hailey:
You're very close with your family, whom I've met, and you often help out at the family business, Three Aunties Thai Market. Is your family also musical, and has your family always supported your music making?
Plum:
No, my family are not the artist types. I guess my dad's family is, there's a lot of musicians in that family, but I didn't really grow up with my dad's side so much. I don't know how I got into music. I guess it just makes sense. I figured out since I started music, [it felt so simple], it was so fun, you know? That's why I kept going, because music is fun for me.
My brother teaches filmmaking, and I feel like there's something not right about people being so stressed out when they go out filming, you know? It should be the opposite. They're just putting so much pressure, so much money into their craft, and it's kind of stifling when you're starting out. It should be fun first, right? That's how you feel encouraged to keep going.
Autumn:
I agree, totally. And speaking of your family, how did they get to the United States from Thailand?
Plum:
They've been going back and forth. My mother met my father here when he was studying. He's a policeman and he was studying criminology or something like that, and they met here, then they got married, and then they moved back to Thailand. The last time that I moved here to New York, my mom said, “oh, let's move to see Plum.” And then she wanted to start a small business here, because she was doing exports in Thailand, so she just moved to the other side doing imports.
She had a few businesses that didn't make it. Then she was just talking to her friends one day and she came back and said, “Hey, I bought a grocery store.” And, you know, we just started from there. And it grew pretty good because she sells pretty cheap, so people like it.
Autumn:
Let's go back to the music for a second and talk about your latest record, Thousands, which was released in 2021. What inspired you to write that record?
Plum:
I love this record because after you write songs and produce them a few times, you start to realize there's something that other people don't do, you know, you kind of see an angle. And [for this record], I didn't use a metronome, so everything is kind of live in one take, and then I’d add something else later, and I had some friends record. But the main sound is just me playing. So it feels like if you are watching me perform in my room, it would sound just like that, you know?
Autumn:
It kind of captures that spirit of live performance. Is that the angle that you're going for there?
Plum:
That too. I feel like nowadays, there's not a lot of space in music. When you listen to music, it feels like people try to fill every space, you know? And as someone who works in sound, I think, maybe my ear is just tired. So when I listen to music with a lot of space, like folk music, you know, like Joni Mitchell or stuff from the 1970s, it feels like there's a lot of space to breathe. And I wanted to capture that kind of space.
Autumn:
That is something that I think I hear in your live performance. You incorporate silence and pauses and empty space into your music in interesting ways.
Hailey:
And you recorded Thousands completely independently in New York City, right? During the pandemic. But you said you worked with a lot of friends––are they musicians that you work with frequently?
Plum:
No, I just went onto this website where there's a lot of musicians and I just paid them. But I work with the same guy all the time who produces and mixes the music, and I think without him it would just sound like me recording by myself.
His name is Koichi Shimizu. He's quite famous actually. He does a soundtrack for a famous Thai director, Apichatpong Weerasethakul. They're frequent collaborators and he's quite known among film people.
“I guess it’s like gratitude when you see all these places that you grew up with and you realize that it took so many people to raise one kid. It took so much help from so many people, right? And everywhere you go you, you remember, somebody took me here. And so I feel like the record is expressing gratitude to those people and the place.”
Hailey:
A lot of your music, like the track “Bangkok Story,” is very much about Bangkok, but this whole album was made in New York. It's the first one that you made and recorded in New York, it has New York's picture on the front of it. And so I love that element of it, that there's still that kind of connection to Bangkok and you're remembering it, but it's the first album that is very New York too. Would you agree with that, Plum?
Plum:
Yeah, totally. I didn't go back to Thailand for 10 years, just because we didn't have money. And then one year something happened and we had to go back. I was so shocked by how much everything had changed. And I think that had a huge impact on me, seeing the place I grew up kind of fading away. And it's weird. As you get older, there's this thing that you never really experienced before. I guess it's like gratitude when you see all these places that you grew up with and you realize that it took so many people to raise one kid. It took so much help from so many people, right? And everywhere you go you, you remember, somebody took me here. And so I feel like the record is expressing gratitude to those people and the place.
Hailey:
You mentioned this already a little bit, but you work on independent film sets and you also work in production for your day job. You’ve spoken to us before about the cinematic quality that music can have. What do you mean by that in your own words? How do the two art forms of film and music overlap for you?
Plum:
I think music, maybe it's just among our friends, but we're into ambience and atmospheric types of sound. So when making music, we want to capture not just the music itself, but maybe the air in that room. That was our thing, you know, and I guess that atmosphere kind of translates into a cinematic feel for a lot of people who listen to it.
Hailey:
I think it reminds me of Morninglory's music a lot. I think we talked recently about how you and Morninglory remind me of each other, because you both do folk music and you both are very funny on stage.
Autumn:
You're very funny.
Plum:
I think it’s just me just needing help in my live environment. It’s as if I'm trying to find an angle in my live shows. Writing songs, making records, and playing live shows are so different. They’re totally different types of art form. And I feel like playing live is not something I've done a lot. So I'm trying to find an angle that's fun for me, you know? I feel like in live show environments, it's kind of funny because there could be hundreds of people on the other side of a room watching one person perform. It doesn't make sense, right? We need to use everybody.
Hailey:
I love that. I think that's part of what makes you perfect for Keepsake House. For most of our shows, we don't want to have a big audience on purpose, because it's meant to feel intimate. It's meant to feel like the audience can interact with the artists and that the artists all interact with each other on stage as well. And I think that's something that you do so naturally.
But also—didn't you perform to hundreds of people in Bangkok?
Plum:
Nah, not hundreds. Photos and social media just fool you.
But still, there was a guitarist I performed with a few times, and that’s nothing like going on [stage] by yourself. I feel like if you can get to that, it's a real foundation, right? So when I see somebody who can just go up on stage by themselves, it feels like that's a solid thing that bands can build on. I'm always so impressed when I see people at Keepsake, because a lot of them perform so well alone.
Hailey:
Yeah, it's a very vulnerable thing to ask of artists, to perform by themselves. And I think it puts their truest side out for everybody to see, which is also why we don't love having huge audiences.
Getting into Keepsake House a little bit, we first approached you last year to ask you to perform in our show in September called Linguistics. And for those who don't know, you actually said no [when we first asked you to perform in that show]. It wasn't until I sent you a video of one of the previous shows that we had done that you changed your mind, and it became more of a conversation, and ultimately you decided to perform. And then I was really happily surprised after Linguistics that you applied to be an Artist in Residence. Why did you hesitate to perform at first, and what made you change your mind and want to play more Keepsake shows?
Plum:
I think I'm just not confident performing live, because I make music by myself.
There are a lot of shows that I go to that aren’t exciting. Maybe the artist just isn't the type of performer that I'm into. So I'm trying to see why I get excited about a certain performer, even if sometimes it's not perfect. I was telling Hailey about an open mic night in Astoria that I went to, and it was so touching because it was mostly senior citizens who, maybe after retiring, they start picking up ukulele! It was so fun to see them perform. And I'm always trying to figure out why I feel that way, you know? That's an important thing to me.
Autumn:
What was it about Keepsake House in particular that made you want to perform?
Plum:
I feel like I can't go out and entertain like Prince, right? But I know my songs pretty well. I can talk about my songs. If you [want to] talk about songwriting, I can talk for a long time about songwriting. And so I thought, oh, that could be my angle.
I was just afraid. It's annoying when you are on stage, you always have this noise, you know, like oh, they're getting bored. And so seeing a performance live, it's like a different type of art. I admire people like Elizabeth & the Catapult so much because [when I saw her perform live] she was just there enjoying herself.
Hailey:
“If you go up on stage and you lie, it’s never going to work. People can detect that kind of bullshit really easily. So that’s why I played a six-minute song [“Bangkok Story”] at Linguistics, because I believe in it. If you believe in things, people are going to believe you.”
Is it helpful to have other artists on stage with you? Does that make it easier or harder for you at the Keepsake shows?
Plum:
It definitely helps because you kind of see and learn [from the other artists]. For me, I'm going there and I feel like I'm learning from everyone. In American culture, a lot of performers start out so young, during childhood! There are talent shows and stuff like that, which we don't have in Thailand. And so every time I go out, I can always steal things from Tonie and Alex [Petti].
Autumn:
You're always going [to live shows to watch] artists perform, and you even watch videos of old Keepsake shows. What drives you to do that kind of research? What are you looking for when you go to different concerts and watch videos?
Plum:
I’m looking for something that touches me, because that's my big thing. If you go up on stage and you lie, it's never going to work. People can detect that kind of bullshit really easily. So that's why I played a six-minute song [“Bangkok Story”] at Linguistics, because I believe in it. If you believe in things, people are going to believe you.
Autumn:
Do you have a specific show or artist you've seen or encountered who really solidified this for you? Someone who you felt totally sold on, like you totally believed what they believed?
Plum:
Have you heard of a guy named Bill Callahan? His live shows are so amazing. And the craziest thing is that his music is so monotonous. He's more like a poet. His music is not that melodious, which is very different from mine. But when you see him perform live, it's so amazing. If I'm to explain it, it feels like he removes melody from the song and lays bare the lyrics for people, you know? It's like a poet.
Hailey:
I've taken Plum to a lot of country music shows, like William Prince and Raye Zaragoza, and I love watching Plum watch other shows, because Plum is so intensely focused. You can tell when you like a song, Plum, because you’ll become very expressive. I think that happened at the most recent show that we went to, Elizabeth & the Catapult, where you really liked the song “Underwater,” which I loved as well. And I think you pay a lot of attention to what you've been talking about, which is stage presence and how artists grab audience attention and keep the audience entertained.
But what you're hitting on is so true, which is that they ultimately have to be a greater version of themselves on stage. I think William Prince is a very, very thoughtful and deep person, a very large person. He takes up a presence quite naturally. Elizabeth & the Catapult, who he saw recently, is totally different. She's moving around the stage. She's a bit more chaotic, very fun. And ultimately that's who they are as people. When we met them, that was who they were. So I love watching you kind of figure that out, and I feel like you're figuring out who you are when you're on stage with us too.
Plum:
Definitely. Yeah.
Hailey:
So what has it been like for you being an Artist in Residence at Keepsake House and what have you learned?
Plum:
Oh, so much. When I see the other Artists in Residence, it's like they've already found their angle, you know? It's very enjoyable to see. I enjoy artists that [aren't necessarily] famous, you know, but if you [the artist] find yourself, there's something delightful about totally expressing that idea of yourself.
I just saw Alex [Petti] for the second time in the last Keepsake show [Outside the Lines]. It was so amazing. I feel like he's playing by himself, but in his head there's a whole band in it. The dynamics! He usually starts off very loud, which is the reverse of how I would do it. My mind's blown every time I listen to his new single, “Everything About You.” The beginning starts off so strong, and then everything gets quieter and quieter, and at the hook it's like there’s nothing left, it's just him with one string. Towards the end, he plays that hook again with a full-blown chord. The way he's arranging things is so amazing.
And Tonie too, their energy, it’s just so fun! They’re like Prince.
The 2023 Keepsake House Artists in Residence (left to right): Alex Petti, Valarie Walker, TONIE, Grace Aki, Robert Kuang, Moyana Olivia, and Plum.
Autumn:
We've been talking a lot about the music side of things, but I think we have to mention, to really capture who you are as an artist—you're also very funny. And you may not think that you're very funny, but as someone who has seen you perform a lot, I'm always cracking up whenever you're on stage. You have a very precise sense of humor, where you just say one sentence very quietly and everyone starts laughing. That's something that I think is really cool about you. So is this something that you think about consciously, or does it just naturally happen this way?
Plum:
I don't think I'm funny.
Autumn:
That's the thing. You say you're not funny, but every time, even just saying you're not funny just made Hailey laugh. It's just very natural. You know what I mean?
Plum:
I feel like it's Thai culture. Everybody's so funny, you know, and last time I watched Morninglory, she said she saves a lot of funny clips on her phone. I think [humor is what] you consume. I like to watch funny things, and those things come out when you're nervous or don't know what to talk about.
Autumn:
So the next Keepsake show is your brainchild, Sounds of the Invisible, which is about ghost stories.
Plum:
Yeah, my uncle is a medium, and when we were growing up, he was a really good storyteller, and he told stories about things that you can't see. It's very random. When we drove somewhere, he would just mention something really weird that we couldn't see. But as a kid it was just magical to hear those types of stories. Have you ever seen a movie called Big Fish? He's like that. The character tells a lot of stories and you can't really tell if it's a lie or he actually sees them. So as a kid it was just magical for me.
One time, my uncle said that people who practice black magic can't enter Bangkok. There are these pillars that—if the black magic practitioner passes them, they lose their power. Because the capital city is where the king lives, right? So they said whoever protects the king should have these pillars set up. I don't know if it's true, but it sounds amazing.
Plum will be perform alongside Elizabeth & the Catapulyt, Valarie Walker, and special guest Alex Petti in the upcoming show, Sounds of the Invisible, at Rockwood Music Hall Stage 3 and live online on Thursday, April 20.
Hailey:
And tell us about the radio show!
Plum:
That's still going on today. It's a very popular radio show called Ghost Radio, and it's on YouTube now. I was actually listening to it before [meeting] you guys. It's a show that goes live every midnight on Sunday and Saturday in Thailand, something like a hundred thousand people will tune in. And in the days when everything is so separated with politics and things like that, it is just amazing to see a whole nation tuning in to listen to these stories. Another fascinating thing is you get to hear the life of people who are not represented in the media in Thailand, you know? Cause you hear from salesmen who traveled up and down the country, and now they have to go into this crummy hotel and then see some ghosts or paranormal experiences.
Autumn:
Do you have any stories from Ghost Radio that really stood out to you?
“Storytellers are artists. Nobody knows who they are. They’re just a voice, yet they take time to arrange all these stories calling in, and to me they’re a [legitimate] artist.”
Plum:
There are so many. There's this one guy who calls in every once in a while, and there's a big cult going on because he's such a good storyteller. I can't pick one though, because it takes a really long time to finish these stories, like an hour maybe. And it's just the way of these storytellers, the really good ones, they create a very believable world that you can enter into. Just by listening to these, you learn a lot about storytelling, too. Storytellers are artists. Nobody knows who they are. They're just a voice, yet they take time to arrange all these stories calling in, and to me they're a [legitimate] artist. They call it a raconteur, right?
Autumn:
Can you tell us more about your idea for the upcoming show, Sounds of the Invisible, and what it's going to look like?
Plum:
I'm still not very sure. Sounds of the Invisible is so vast, right? So I thought a lot about it. For Thai people, spirits are just in everything, they don't necessarily have to be in spooky stories. It could be something uplifting, or nice spiritual things too. I’m thinking of going that direction maybe.
Hailey:
You’ll play in another Keepsake show in July called Americana the Beautiful. That show is really meant to challenge the definitions of Americana music. So in your own words, how would you describe the music you write? And what impression do you hope to give to American audiences when you perform here?
Autumn:
And before that even, what is your impression of America? What's your relationship with this country and this culture?
Plum:
I've been interested in cowboys and Western films, stuff like that. All this is through the lens of Bill Callahan, my favorite, but it's so minimal and stark, and I guess it's very different from the concept of America that is [all about] excess. But I feel like a cowboy lifestyle is very minimal. You only take what you need. So I guess when you talk about America, that's what I'm thinking right now.
Also, the concept of the cowboy is the Republican male type of figure that's being kind of challenged right now. It's interesting to see because it's not only America, but I feel Thailand is the same way. The people who are very quiet and reserved, kind of like an old school type of male figure, are being pushed into a Republican or a dated type of figure. And I feel like, especially people of my generation, my brother, we grew up looking up to this ideal, right? And now there's a new wave of people who are challenging it, like let's say if you are patriotic now, it's an old school thought, and it's pretty uncool.
With things like this, I feel like I'm in the middle of it and I'm trying to find space in it… how to navigate it, how to keep what's good about it, and how to be accepting or changing with the time too.
Autumn:
Is that something that you feel like is represented in your music as well? Or are you still working on that part?
Plum:
Yeah, I think so. Talking about my last album [Thousands], I feel it was like saying goodbye to the time before Covid, you know? And maybe for a lot of younger people, it's just a nostalgia thing, but for me it's about how we're leaving something good behind. We're hurrying to accept all these new things and not preserving what's good about the past. And I'm kind of afraid those things will be gone in 10 years.
Autumn:
That's a really good point. And that's a good hook for what Americana the Beautiful can mean, that's a good direction to take it.
Hailey:
Yeah, I think that's a really good metaphor for the show because like I said, it is kind of a challenge. It is challenging what Americana music is and how it's been defined, and how it's been really gatekept.
“When you have joy, it kind of wins over everything. All the things that you’re supposed to be as a musician are just thrown away when you see a kid playing ukulele.”
Plum, to me, your music is Americana music. It is representative of exactly what you're talking about, the nostalgia of this place and loving this place when you see it and experience it as somebody new to this country, which is where this genre comes from.
We're at the last question now. At Keepsake House, we talk a lot about the magic in live shows and the communities they help create, almost like every live performance is itself a keepsake that you cherish from a whole house of life experiences. So tell us about your most memorable or fulfilling live performance, the one you would grab first in a fire.
Plum:
I think the Elizabeth & the Catapult gig that we saw a couple weeks ago [St. Patrick’s Day 2023], that was so amazing. We talked about this before, that I see a lot of good musicians and I'm never impressed by virtuosity. But Elizabeth, she just has so much joy when she's playing.
I feel the same with Morninglory. When you have joy, it kind of wins over everything. All the things that you're supposed to be as a musician are just thrown away when you see a kid playing ukulele. I feel like Elizabeth is, well, first of all, if there's a show by her, just go see it! At first I didn't know if I was going to like her music. But then when she was playing, my mind was just blown. And not only is she joyful, but she's also just a very skilled musician. You can tell her influence is from classical music. It's crazy. Go see her!
Hailey:
And you can see her performing with Plum on April 20th at our show, Sounds of the Invisible.
Plum:
Also Valarie Walker [will perform in Sounds of the Invisible]. Last time we saw her, she was just amazing. She's so funny, but so wise. And I feel like for me, that's what I'm looking for these days, a piece of wisdom that somebody shares through their stories, and when it's something that you learn from your own experience and you share it, it's precious.
