Behind Closed Doors with Alex Wong
Alex Wong is a singer, songwriter, and producer based in Nashville, Tennessee. He is co-producing and performing in our upcoming series, the Show Yourself Residency. Tickets are on sale now! In this interview, Alex chats with Jasmine about his journey into writing and releasing music under his own name, the importance of building community, and what it means to show yourself.
In this blog series, we post in-depth interviews that take you behind closed doors (or #BCD) with independent artists, many of whom have performed or will perform in a Keepsake show.
Jasmine:
For those who don’t know, how did you get into writing and performing your own songs? Give us a little timeline and some of your musical influences growing up.
Alex:
I was a classical music nerd in high school, then went to college to study classical percussion. I thought I wanted to play in the orchestra and in movie scores, and those were my musical ambitions at the time. I didn’t have good music taste in high school, and my parents didn’t really listen to music. With the exception of classical music, I kind of just listened to whatever someone told me to listen to, and in terms of pop music, I didn’t know anything. College was really the time that I was exposed to different music from friends and started learning what I liked.
At school, I met some local musicians who were not studying there. They were a rock band, self-taught, and were looking for a drummer. I auditioned and it was my first rock band audition ever. Actually, that’s not true, I auditioned for a rock band my freshman year of college and got rejected. So, this was the second one and I got accepted and they let me join their band (The Din Pedals). It was kind of my crash course in rock music, and they were really into Brit Pop, so The Cure and Radiohead and the ‘90s British scene became one of my first big loves in music. They ended up getting signed while I was racing to finish school and my classes. I took crazy loads to finish on time because they were going to move to LA with or without me, and I really wanted to graduate and go. I ended up going with them, and we got signed to Epic Records.
I had a very delusional view of how the music industry worked. I thought to myself, “Oh, you can just graduate college and get signed to a major label. I don’t know why anyone is complaining, it’s so easy!” While we were there, we made a record with a really expensive producer at an expensive studio. We spent tons of money. I still cannot believe how much money that record cost. It sounded fine of course, but now I realize I could make six of them with how much we spent. Looking back, it was really cool to go through that.
We were one of the last pre-Napster major label system acts. We did a national radio tour. We opened up for some bigger bands. We played some notable gigs, one of which was at Red Rocks opening up for Megadeth, actually.
Jasmine:
Whoa!
Alex:
It was the worst gig ever. It was us, Deftones, and Megadeth. Our booking agent told us it was a festival but it was actually a stop on the Megadeth tour. We got through four songs and the audience started boo-ing. One person threw an apple from the back and suddenly, everyone was throwing everything, like batteries and soda. It was quite exhilarating and honestly one of my favorite memories in my career.
After we broke up and were eventually dropped from Epic, I was still in LA, and I felt a little too far away from classical music to pursue my Master’s, which had been the plan. I was working at a web 1.0 design firm and bullshitting my way through using Photoshop, and that’s when I met a producer and composer Drew Kapner, who became my mentor and taught me about the process of producing and writing material. I started dipping my toes into that and I was really terrified of it. I felt very clamped down in terms of expressing myself that way. I was comfortable behind the drums but definitely didn’t know where to start when it came to writing.
Around that time, I met Devon Copley, who lived in New York, and we formed a duo. That was my first writing project, and it was called The Animators. It was my first experience writing and co-writing my own songs and performing at the front of the stage. I was still only singing harmonies and such then. That brought me to New York. We were a band for about five or six years, thrown into the Lower East Side music scene. Years later, I formed another duo called The Paper Raincoat with Amber Rubarth, who is also a great artist. Each one of those projects were a step to me singing lead more and figuring out what I wanted to say as a writer.
“It was a slow gradual process for me to get to a point of performing under my own name as a solo artist. Some might say it took me a long time, but I don’t know how you judge those things.”
When that project ended, I was doing a lot of stuff. I was producing a lot of records. I was touring with a few artists. But I had this real nagging feeling that I wanted to do my own music and figure out what that was. I was completely paralyzed by fear. It took me a long time to keep pushing myself into that. I put out a solo record in 2012 but I was too afraid to call it my own name, so I went under a moniker (A City on a Lake). It was a slow gradual process for me to get to a point of performing under my own name as a solo artist. Some might say it took me a long time, but I don’t know how you judge those things.
For me, I feel like my career went in reverse order. I’d gained a lot of experience in collaborating and producing before I did my own solo work, whereas other people might start as a solo artist and learn how to collaborate. So the last five or so years, I really have committed to my own stuff and performing under my own name and [am] gradually getting more comfortable.
Jasmine:
That’s awesome. Like you mentioned, you’re a singer/songwriter but also a music producer, so you hold all the keys in bringing a song to life. What would you say is your favorite part of the process? What’s the hardest?
Alex:
That’s interesting you’re asking that. I’m actually in process—I’ve been trying to finish this song for our upcoming residency. I’ve had the idea for this song for a long time but I haven’t had time to sit down and mine it out. Generally, I would say I’m pretty quick when it comes to writing when it’s not me trying to express my deepest darkest truth. But this song is definitely one of my deepest darkest truths. I’ve been home from tour for a couple of weeks, and lately, I’ve been waking up and writing really early and basically going to battle. That’s kind of what it is.
“One of the core lessons I’ve learned in this life is that instead of depending on the external, it’s important to put your roots down and build the thing that you want. ”
Sometimes that part is my favorite and most joyous, but sometimes it’s just the slog and you’re battling your own demons. I wrote about fourteen choruses for this song that I scraped. Yesterday, I finally hit a chorus I liked, and the rest of it came faster after that. It’s my favorite and least favorite part.
With producing, it has different challenges. I really love the first draft—where I get to throw down ideas. It’s fun because you’re not really at the point where you’re putting the microscope on anything. So you’re thinking, I’m so good at music and everything works and it’s great! The second draft is when you have to ask, does that actually work? I also love mixing. When the song comes out of the speakers the way you always envision—that’s really satisfying.
Jasmine:
I really feel that about the songwriting process, hating it and loving it at the same time.
Alex:
Yeah, I know a lot of writers who say, “anyone who’s doing this for a living, even however many songs you’ve written, when you sit down to write a new one, there’s a little bit of a fear you’ve written your last one already.”
Jasmine:
Totally. I remember the last time you and I hung out, we were talking about our core value, and you said that community is the driving force behind your decision-making and relationships you build. It’s also very much the epitome of these upcoming shows, and what we do at Keepsake House. Can you tell me more about what community means to you and how building community became such an important aspect in your life?
Alex:
Sure. I remember when I was living in LA, I was roommates with Drew. We had a studio in the backhouse of this little cottage. We would have parties there, and it became a hub of musicians and artists. It was my first time finding my tribe, and I found strength and safety from it. That place was called Angelhouse Studios. I always associated that name with community, so when I moved to New York, I named my studio there Angelhouse East. When I moved to Nashville, I named my studio Angelhouse South. I also used that name for other projects that were about community building, like these pop-up dinners I would do.
Alex’s “stay and fight” tattoo.
I went so far as to get our logo tattooed on my back as a reminder of the building. It was an important trait that I always wanted to honor. I have a tendency to run or be an optimizer, to look for the perfect place or relationship. It’s always something outside, when I’m thinking, oh maybe this city is better, maybe this next thing is better. One of the core lessons I’ve learned in this life is that instead of depending on the external, it’s important to put your roots down and build the thing that you want.
I have another tattoo that is a reminder of that, which says, “stay and fight.” To me, that’s what that means—it’s to plant your flag and build the world that you want.
Jasmine:
I really resonate with that, especially when we started Keepsake House. As an independent artist myself, I felt like there was a lack of opportunities and community for us in NYC. Why not build opportunities I felt didn’t exist for musicians, especially artists of color? Why not just build the community that I was longing for?
You’re spending a lot of time in New York these days, obviously for the shows but what about New York brings a sense of community for you? Are you looking to return anytime soon for a more permanent stay?
Alex:
The tribe in LA was really meaningful to me, and I felt that similar experience when I was in New York when I moved there in 2003. I met this community of musicians that really felt like my people. I feel like I found my voice as a producer and writer. It shaped my values as an artist. When I left, I wasn’t even ready to leave. New York has always fed me a lot, and I was still wanting more time there. Some people go there and everything goes wrong for them. They get splashed on by the taxi or miss the subway or get lost. I’m the opposite—everything always felt like it worked there. My vibe and New York’s vibe clicked. I just appreciated that.
When I came back for From Story to Song, I had those same feelings. Totally new people and community, but those feelings were very similar. I felt immediately integrated and became friends with people. It felt very welcoming. Something reignited in me—I felt there was more to explore in New York, so I wanted to spend more time there. This residency aligned with that plan.
Alex performing “Second Generation” at Keepsake House’s annual show From Story to Song on October 30, 2021.
Jasmine:
Yeah, that’s amazing. And a great transition to talk about the series we’re putting together called the Show Yourself Residency. You also have a song called “Show Yourself.” Can you share what that phrase means to you?
Alex:
I wrote a song about five years ago called “Show Yourself.” It was one of those that I was struggling to write for a long time. I probably put a little too much weight on it, but that song felt like a gate to the next phase of everything.
It was the first time I’d written something about certain identity experiences. It’s been 25 years since I’ve been in the music industry and for a lot of it, I really suppressed my own identity, especially as an Asian American. It was just the conventional wisdom. I was literally told by many industry people that that’s just not what you want to write about. It’s not what people are going to relate to. There’s also this engrained conditioning that if I can be accepted by the white community, which was the mainstream, then I will have made it and found success.
We could go into it more, but I used to have this aversion to Asian artist groups and Asian artist events because I always felt like it was [far away from where I wanted to be]. I’ve definitely rethought that view but at the time, that’s how I felt about it. And now it’s different—there’s more talent and more of everything, but at the time, I just felt like, You don’t have to be good, you just have to be Asian to get on this bill. That made me really uncomfortable, and I didn’t want to be known that way. I didn’t want to be known as an Asian American artist, I just wanted to be known as an artist.
“I liked the double meaning of the title “Show Yourself.” There’s show yourself and step out into the flashlight and come out from hiding, like a sort of command, as if a guard was searching for you. But there’s also this other meaning—show yourself and open yourself up to the world. I made the song about a game of hide and seek. ”
I think differently about that in some ways. I realized I’d been pushing these things down and rejecting these parts of me in order to survive in an industry that I wanted to make it in. I was questioning that more and asking, why am I doing that? And of course, during those four years with The-President-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named, it brought on a lot of internal examination. That song was the first time I looked honestly at my particular experience.
I realized my experience was an in-between experience. It wasn’t Chinese, it wasn’t American. There was no category for my experience. I was also made to feel not Chinese enough by a lot of Chinese people, so I glommed onto being American. Of course I never felt American enough either.
“Show Yourself,” for me—I liked the double meaning of the title. There’s "show yourself and step out into the flashlight and come out from hiding, like a sort of command, as if a guard was searching for you. But there’s also the other meaning—show yourself and open yourself up to the world. I made the song about a game of hide and seek.
…and now I’ve forgotten your original question!
Alex co-produced and will be performing in the upcoming series, Show Yourself: A Benefit Residency Celebrating AAPI Stories, at Rockwood Music Hall throughout the month of May. Both in-person and livestream tickets are available now!
Jasmine:
Haha no, that was it! I just wanted to know what that meant to you, and you answered it. And it feels really fitting that it’s the name of this residency.
Have you read Minor Feelings by Cathy Park Hong?
Alex:
I have.
Jasmine:
I really resonate with what she said about the self-hating Asian. The feeling you’re describing of rejecting who you are is so relatable as Asian Americans, and definitely what you’re describing.
Alex:
Totally.
Jasmine:
You’ve been in the music world for a while now—25 years! I know I’ve personally been following your work for half my life. Is there anything you would have told your younger self?
Alex:
That is so funny because that is literally the song I’m writing right now.
Jasmine:
Really? Wow.
Alex:
I would say, “you have permission. You don’t have to earn it, you don’t have to be given it. You have it. Whatever that means to you.” I think our language is a little awkward around that word (permission) because it’s always talked about as something being given, and I kind of reject that.
Jasmine:
I’m really excited to hear the song now. What do you have coming up or in the works musically?
Alex:
I will say this residency has occupied the lion’s share of my time and space. I’m very excited about that. It’s been one of my biggest undertakings to date. The lineup is incredible, we got our dream lineup.
“You have permission. You don’t have to earn it, you don’t have to be given it. You have it. ”
After that, I’m doing a lot of writing in the next few months. I’m doing a bunch of touring with other artists that I play with. Then I’m going to try to record this new batch of songs.
Jasmine:
Very exciting. At Keepsake House, we talk a lot about the magic in live shows and the communities they help create, almost like every live performance is itself a keepsake that you cherish from a whole house of life experiences. Tell us about your most memorable or fulfilling live performance, the one you would grab first in a fire.
Alex:
Yeah, wow. Anytime anyone asks me what my favorite performance is, my mind goes blank. I think there have been a few. The ones I’ve cherished is when it works with the audience, like everyone is a unit. Especially ones where people are participating or singing. It changes the experience. I hold onto those.
As an artist, we have so [few] milestones of validation, so we do what we can to keep any form of validation. I have a folder of things I keep from fans—a nice email, or post-it. I think the times where people have been affected or inspired in a positive way, they’ve been most meaningful to me.
When I go to shows, the shows I love the most are when you’re near something that feels very close to the source, and then you get some of that. My channel opens up more when I’m at a show where that person is somehow just very connected. I get all these ideas and people think I’m texting but I’m just furiously writing down things on my phone. That experience is so joyful and it’s such a special feeling, because you’re sucking off their conduit in this weird, energetic way. The portal opens, and they’re bringing it through and you’re getting your own stuff. It’s really lovely.
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